Moragans Say No To Measure A

MG May 11, 2012 at 07:17 pm

I was there when Prop 13 passed. It was the first time the population said enough is enough. A realization that the only way to stop addiction was to deny the addict the drug.
Revisionist sentiments now are not useful and as we know, it has only slowed down the addict, not cured him. New family's move to Lamorinda already primed with two college degrees (probaly two advanced degrees) with the drive to ensure their childrens success. To pretend it's the parcel taxes which keep the schools thriving is ignorant of the facts.

Harry Jenkins May 11, 2012 at 07:23 pm

My wife and I experience this frustration every day. We send our kids to private school but pay the high property taxes associated with this area.

Harry Jenkins May 11, 2012 at 07:26 pm

CJ - Now you see why we went with private school. It really wasn't that much more expensive and we got a top notch school that also shares our value system.

Bailey Lee May 11, 2012 at 08:10 pm

Let's not get too carried away. Bentley costs 23-31K per year. Collecting 3K/kid is not close to 1/3 or 1/2 what a private school costs. Plus the quality of education in Orinda (and prob Moraga and Lafayette, of which I have no direct experience) is hardly "mediocre." Both kids loved it and both kids made it to 2 of the "Top 20" universities in the US and did well.

Harry Jenkins May 11, 2012 at 08:16 pm

Bailey - There are other benefits to a private school that appealed to us. We have no regrets.

Bailey Lee May 11, 2012 at 08:41 pm

That's cool; one size doesn't fit all!

CJ May 11, 2012 at 08:53 pm

BL- You are correct. My fractions are probably off. But their are certainly more reasonable private school tuitions than Spencer. That being said my criticisms of the mediocre instruction my kids receive here are real and valid. Virtually the same as friends who have kids in the socalled "lesser" districts surrounding us.
I will stand by my and many others opinion that the schools excel because of us parents and our dedication and DNA. The union makes sure we have no better or worse instruction than any other.

Lamorindan May 11, 2012 at 10:16 pm

Well said concerning the addiction. I was there at the time and find it incredible that 35 years later governemnt is still blaming all the problems on that measure. Private industry has to adjust to all sort of questionable laws and edicts and cannot afford to whine for 35 years!
$$$ are not the wholy grail to education. Parental support, social support, etc... go a much longer way.

c5 May 14, 2012 at 01:03 pm

agree with you mg...you can toss more and more money at the problem, and it just doesn't seem to fix it...because as you point out there are other 'societal' factors such as dedicated parents and a driven attitude that have a lot more impact than how many ipads are in the classroom...imho.

Born and Raised May 15, 2012 at 11:20 am

It is not the teachers salary or pension that is the problem here. In fact my opinion is that teachers don't get paid enough. When these parcel taxes are assessed, collected and then given to the school districts, they are then put into the coffers until the district figures out what THEY want to do with the money. I can gaurantee you that the teachers salaries will be the last thing on their mind. Look at the salaries the superintendent and other employees for the district make. Then you have the districts making decisions on who gets contracts to make repairs, build new additions and maintanenance which usually goes to someone who's related to or friends of the district employees. If there was a true and transparent accounting of the monies spent from the parcel taxes I would have no problem paying more but when a few get to spend it how they like, without having to disclose much, well I do have a problem with that.

Steve Cohn May 15, 2012 at 12:06 pm

Above are comments by 20 people "representing" 16,000 residents of Moraga (and some of those 20, myself included, don't even live there, pay taxes there, or have kids in school there). Heaven (and maybe J.D.) knows how many people read this and do not comment. Does the city/District really know why 35% of the voters reject this rather modest tax? Are they already paying too much for education? Will the money make any difference? Should the users pay the extra? (and since there are few indigents in Moraga the problem of need is probably close to moot) How many just did not vote and what did they think? Was the 35% representative of the community? I understand there was no sunset on this proposal - was that the deciding factor? Was the "accountability" an issue for many? (where is this money going as Born&Raised asks). Money is fungible - saying this money is going to X just means that a like amount from the general fund does not need to be spent for X and can go to Y. Does the District have a long range financial plan and can it show that because the fickle State has withdrawn funds the district is now Z in the hole? Would that gain support by the taxpayers? These questions, and more, are questions the District needs to ask of itself and of its community. How do these questions get asked and what is the best way to get valid answers? My guess is the ballot box, while required for raising taxes, is not the best way.

Chris Nicholson May 15, 2012 at 12:22 pm

Great summary of the difficulties, Steve. It seems to me that the problem is that the funding mechanism is too disconnected from the spending mechanisms. Taxes with static nominal rates go up and down with the economy. Spending and unfunded commitments keep chugging upward. When we have a temporary surplus, our leaders tend to layer on permanent spending to more than offset it.
If we are going to tie their hands on raising taxes (a good idea per me). we need to also tie their hands in terms of spending, surpluses, creation of unfunded liabilities and the need to bake-in dynamism into spending programs to better match funding.... Once those constraints are set up, our leaders should do the detailed optimizations/trade-offs. For the reasons you noted, the ballot box is a poor forum for micromanagement. The solution, however, is not to remove our protections on never-ending tax increases. The solution is to adopt an internally consistent mechanism for matching spending with taxes and avoiding annual crises. On schools in particular, lets ask parents to do more. I just got an email from EFO asking for an additional donation to close a funding gap. As a parent of two students, I immediately and happily chipped in an additional amount that was a multiple of annual school parcel taxes.

TMoraga May 16, 2012 at 01:49 pm

Chris as a parent your funding the RE values for these people who are then selling their homes to new owners who are currently in many cases paying over ask within a day or two of the home being listed. LOL Then these new owners who have paid over top dollar for their home find out that the previous owners who have been here for 20-30-40yrs have not contributed local funding for road servicing and are not willing to pay a lousy $200 a year to close the gap on the LAME CA GOV funding issues which yes are going to have a big impact on our little Moraga Schools.
So in the end we either need all the no voters to cash out and MOVE because clearly Moraga is too expensive for them even with their hundreds of thousands of dollars even Millions in cash they leave town with when they sell their old in many cases not updated homes LOL. Lets get real about Moraga - it has nothing other than great schools and a nice park. My Wife and I didn't move here for Moraga we moved here for the schools. If we are going to pay a million plus for a house and get lame School support from the home owners who have high home values due to the schools - I would simply recommend to all potential buyers that the Peninsula offers far better professional growth and income options and schools that will continue to get better with time while Moraga goes into decline. This prop A and the up coming solution to fixing the very poor roads is an investment in Moraga home values the Schools being #1.

Andrew L. May 16, 2012 at 02:01 pm

Moraga must have something else going for it other than schools and a park, otherwise you wouldn't have childless singles and couples, college students, and senior citizens choosing to live here. It's an error to ascribe your motivation for moving here to everyone else.
We have two school-age children and schools were simply one of the motivations we had to move here, albeit a primary one.

Danielle May 16, 2012 at 02:12 pm

Yess! FINALLY! Thank you Andrew L. I agree completely and while we wholeheartedly support local education we have found it strange how much importance so many -- or seemingly so -- put in that part of the equation. We moved here because it was quiet, rural and off the beaten track and not faced with the problems experienced by other communities less fortunate.

TMoraga May 16, 2012 at 02:13 pm

Hey Andrew - the folks paying over ask are not people who grew up here. Only local kids I know who have stayed local - either rent condo's or have moved in to mom and dads old house and have a property tax base inherited from the 60's. The few who have paid high value for their homes and can afford to live here are all RE Agents. Which is kinda funny.
No all my neighbors who have young kids to kids in college all moved here for the schools many of them are pretty dang excited about the jump in home values three have sold their homes just recently and are stoked to move out of town with their trunk full of cash. And no so far all three homes were not purchased by LaMorinda people. All three homes in the last three months were purchases by young families moving from SF looking for great schools.

TMoraga May 16, 2012 at 02:20 pm

As for Taxes it cracks me up how everyone is Anti Tax and think they pay so much more than anyone else here in CA. We just moved an elder family member here his home of 30yrs valued around $400,000 was costing him $8000 a year in taxes in a State viewed as having one of the hardest hit economies in the US. He is now in a home here in Moraga which is valued around 400K and his taxes are half what he paid for the home he lived in for 30yrs. The schools around that old home were considered the best in the state which is why his home sold for over ask two days after he listed it in a state where the Politicians all show up pandering job solutions and economy speeches during election years LOL.
He is now here in Moraga and finds the bitching and complaining about taxes and the lack of public support from the home owners for the schools so stupid all he can do is shake is head and say people here in Moraga are clueless and don't pay Shit.

Dan Perkins May 17, 2012 at 03:50 pm

Way to go Boomers.

jjobes May 17, 2012 at 04:00 pm

Two things--the Bay Area is aging and fewer people having kids. Those people don't want to pay for schools largely. As the Bay Area ages, schools in even "good areas" like Moraga will suffer. The exception may be Silicon Valley/the Peninsula. Many seniors, as well as those who have chosen not to have kids, want it for themselves. I don't, on the other hand, think an exemption for seniors is fair as they get the benefit of housing prices being high and/or increasing. However, most seniors (and many who have chosen not to have kids) are pretty selfish and self-centered, even when they are pretty well set. They think they are owed (and I am 52 and my husband 58, so we're not that young, but we have kids in private schools still). Also, I don’t think people really realize how bad the economy is and has been. There are many, like us who have been suffering for 3 straight years. Many won't admit that, especially in affluent communities. What used to be easier for us to afford is now almost undoable (and I am not talking jewelry or fancy vacations here--cut back on food, gas, clothing, EVERYTHING). We also know many professionals/semi-professionals who are out of work for 1-3 years (paralegal, controller, inventory control, banking, project manager, insurance industries, clerks, so all over the board). I came from a poor background, so we while we have been overall decent financially as a married couple until recently, I have a different mind set than many in the Bay Area.

Larry Tessler May 17, 2012 at 04:01 pm

Mark, you are correct all the way down the line (although I'm not too sure about the tyranny comment). We too have no children. We are seniors. We live on a combination of a fixed income and our savings. We understand the value of education and its necessity for a bright future. We have, and will continue to vote for monies necessary to maintain and improve our local school system.

TMoraga May 17, 2012 at 04:04 pm

Hey you guys - its not tossing more money at something when - funding is reduced and a different source is tapped to replace the missing funds.
Throwing more money at something like the schools would be the schools asking for us to do measure A because they want more money than they had last year or the year prior of the year prior to that. When funds are reduced by a Million dollars by the state and you go and ask the local population to help find that money elseware - that is not increasing or throwing more money at the schools its simply replacing the money that isn't sent to them by the state. This whole throw more money at a problem statement is along the same lines as this "Protest Main ST" BS its a generic unfounded comment lacking any sort of logic or actual proof. LOL

Larry Tessler May 17, 2012 at 04:10 pm

You may be correct, but I suspect not fully so. Bruce Burns is the Superintendent of Schools for the schools that are the subject of this thread. He is very approachable. Why not speak directly to him rather than speculating on what you think you know is actually going on.

TMoraga May 17, 2012 at 04:16 pm

Up till about 8 months ago your argument would be spot on JJobes. The grads who entered the work force between 2003 through 2010 have suffered in a big way regarding professional growth and opportunity I have a number of very good friends and family members who fit this. They are all doing multiple jobs and have small solo businesses on the side just to make ends meet for the past few years. However those same people today some of which are in the hardest hit industry in CA the housing and development business are all seeing big contracts and projects started in the last 6 months. They all have more work than they can handle every single one of them has hired additional employees and a couple of them have rented office space in the past 6 months. The Tech business which I'm in has done pretty well since 2004. The Pharma business which I have a few close friends in has been pretty much immune to the whole down turn. My wife is in the financial biz - we have seen yearly income fluctuations change as much as 40-50% not due to the lack of business and profits she has been involved with but due to the GOV response to poorly run financial firms breaking the very basic rules of balanced risk etc. If the GOV were to get involved in the Tech and Pharma pay scales as they have with the Financial business there would be even more out of work and under paid people today.

Larry Tessler May 17, 2012 at 04:22 pm

Most seniors are "pretty selfish and self-centered"? Where is your evidence for this bold statement? I'm a senior. I have no children. I may be selfish and self-centered but not with respect to the schools or the Town of Moraga. I have many friends here in Moraga that just might agree with me. Guess I'll have to poll them. Wouldn't want to mislead.

jjobes May 17, 2012 at 04:24 pm

The people I talk about as being out of work are all 50 plus--scary. The data on people going on Social Security early (as of 62) and many going on disability is a result of the 50 plus crowd losing work and not able to find anything more than contract jobs at best. Tech is good. Glad pharma good, and despite government interference that's coming even more in that industry, with boomers reaching senior status, that industry may stay steady. Indeed, keep the gov out of what little they are not already interfering with (real estate, banking, on and on).

TMoraga May 17, 2012 at 04:25 pm

Mg there is a big difference between sending your tax money to Sacramento and having it spent on cell phones - company cars and thousands of employees hired to manage whatever efforts the politicians dream up. Vs locally collected property taxes that stay local and are used locally by the locals to fix or pay for the things the local community needs to handle.
There is no argument here that Sacramento can't balance a budget or operate within their financial means so sending more money to SAC makes no sense. Finding ways to keep our money local and pay for things the State has decided it can stop sending us money for makes far more sense which is why Parcel Taxes are becoming very popular - its the local populations of towns and cities across the State sending Sac a very clear message no more money for you we are keeping our money local for the things we need done. The next push will be for SAC to try and get access to Parcel Tax funds by taxing local Parcel Taxes which today Sacramento can't touch local Parcel fees.

TMoraga May 17, 2012 at 04:38 pm

The Age vs employment issue has always existed Jjobes. That is why my great Great Grand Father lived with my grand parents in his golden years. He was an Oil Exec had a pension etc but he was pretty much out of work in his primary career by 50. He started a small one man business doing what he loved to help with his small pension.
The Boomers and their parents ie my grand parents and my parents lived through one of the largest economic booms in the history of the US period. Which is why the boomers and many of their parents created the whole old folks home business. That trend has changed in more recent years there are more and more 30-40yr olds like my self having grand parents end up living at home with the family again. You can thank the slow down in economic growth and changes to how pensions are paid out etc etc. The new trend for 50yr olds who missed the old pension plans and full health coverage retirement packages is a migration to cheaper places to live with good health care solutions - moving to Canada I have three recent co-workers purchase property in Canada and become Canadians for this exact reason. There are actual TV shows now on HGTV where Americans are buying Retirement property in other countries for this exact reason. This is a economic trend per a given population of people due to their life time earnings and events and policy changes impacting their wealth at the outer end of their working careers.

James Coleridge May 17, 2012 at 04:38 pm

I have found this a fun site to read and occasionally comment but I have to say I was surprised by the anti senior citizen sentiment expressed by some here. I have a feeling this comes from the perception that we have somehow pulled the wool over everyone's eyes and are living high on the hog while you youngsters (most of whom I seek out and like) do all the heavy financial lifting. It's a very strange dynamic and I am sorry it is out there because my personal thinking has always been that we're in this together. Now I'm not so sure.

Born and Raised May 17, 2012 at 04:39 pm

LT, I have to admit that I wasn't talking specifically about this particular district. I happen to know that Mt. Diablo district has done this in the past (given contracts to companies who are related to personel). I have voted yes for every parcel tax in the past even though my wife and I don't have children. I feel as though the money should go directly to the kids and the teachers period and since there is no transparent accounting of how the funds are used, well..............

TMoraga May 17, 2012 at 04:43 pm

What do I see my generation the 30-40yr olds doing in their 50's and 60's? I think there will be a massive gap between the planners and the non planners regarding ability to retire or do a job thats not a top professional role etc. I have friends who have been exceptionally smart about their savings - investments and retirement planning who will be in good shape to do whatever they want at 50-60yrs of age. I have other friends who till their mid 30's considered matching and 401K's to be annoying and really didn't contribute much of anything to them nor did they get any other type of savings or investments going - this group is going to be in a world of hurt given Social Security we already know can't keep up with cost of living or pay enough to cover health costs and basic living needs.