County's Hearing On Sufi Sanctuary Is All Day
Crowd packs Lesher Center theater to hear appeal of plans for 66,000-square-foot facility off Boulevard Way.
Photos
The county Board of Supervisors is holding an all-day hearing Tuesday on the controversial plans for a 66,000-square-foot new sanctuary for the Sufism Reoriented congregation in Saranap.
Look for a longer piece in Patch later today.
The hearing, held at the Lesher Center for the Arts in Walnut Creek to accommodate the large crowd, is for a larger project, on 3.1 acres, than the current Sufism Reoriented building in Saranap, an unincorporated residential neighborhood between Lafayette and Walnut Creek.
Hundreds of people attended the hearing. The first floor and balcony of the Hoffman Theatre at the Lesher Center for the Arts were virtually filled as the morning proceeded.
The first appellant representative to speak was lawyer Stuart Flashman on behalf of the Saranap Homeowners Organization. The project does not meet the county's land use standards, including parking provisions, Flashman said. He added, "The community is very willing to work with the applicant to come up with a mutually acceptable project."
Roger Bird
11:09 am on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
If this is so: "The community is very willing to work with the applicant to come up with a mutually acceptable project." then I would be very surprised if Sufism ReOriented would be unwilling to cooperate. But I am suspicious why this has not been done already. And from what I know, the Sufis have already bent over-backwards to accomodate the wishes of the rest of the community.
Annie
7:16 pm on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
The 'rest' of the community? What about the tax-paying homeowners in the neighborhood? They haven't bent on one single thing. Please get your facts correct before you comment on something.
Joseph David Dacus
7:35 am on Wednesday, February 22, 2012
It may come as a surprise and shock for those in opposition to the project, who are members of a "homeowners" organization, and frequently refer to that fact, and refer to the supporters as being from outside the area, or (heaven forbide) are "renters" (gasp), that the vast majority of SUPPORTERS of the new Sufism Reoriented sanctuary are Saranap neighbors, just like them, who are home owners and tax payers, just like them. And whether they are renters is an issue how? Those renters also pay taxes too. These hardworking community minded service oriented people are portrayed as deadbeats. The opposite is in fact the case. They serve or served in the military branches of our armed forces, and their honored dead are buried in national cemeteries (where the heart and wing symbol of Sufism Reoriented is an accepted symbol of faith). They are the very heart of this community.
Annie
7:17 pm on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
Sorry, I meant the group Sufism reoriented hasn't bent
Mani Sheriar
11:59 am on Saturday, February 25, 2012
I think putting two thirds of the building under ground, at an incredible expense, so that the visible building will be about the same size as nearby structures and not actually dominate the landscape is a big bend.
Carson
10:07 pm on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
Was at much of the hearing today and it seemed many that support the project tried to make it a religeous discrimination battle and many were from out of the area including southern calif and NY. Most of the local residents seemed like they arent against the project but against the SIZE of the project. It looks like 3 or 4 flying saucers with more square footage than the White House. The suffis that spoke made it very clear that they wont budge on the size or design.
Joseph David Dacus
7:37 am on Wednesday, February 22, 2012
I heard several of these people refer to "walled compounds" and "underground bunkers" when the underground portion of the building is a social hall, kitchen, chorus room, bookstore (open to the public), and administrative offices and bathrooms! They say it isn't about religion, but about land use. My experience is that it isn't about religion, it is about bigotry and fear! Mostly stirred up by the leaders of several tiny groups in the neighborhood who, if you read the material on their websites, practice hate speech of the most egregious sort. As one person said, no one ever describes THEMSELVES as racist. And, when I hear them repeat over and over they are not prejudiced against this group, I'm reminded over and over of what The Bard once said, "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" The real story came when supporters were asked to rise, and almost the entire room rose as one silent voice in support. It was a true pity the opposition folks didn't have one of their spokespersons ask the same question. I suspect they didn't because it would not have presented well, and later, name after name was called and the people who had filled out speaker cards were gone...fair weather protesters.
Mani Sheriar
12:04 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
Most of the supporters are in fact local. If you walk around our neighborhood you will see that the number of houses which *do not* have "save our saranap" signs on them vastly outnumber those that do. When supporters were asked to stand up, most of the ~700 people in the theater stood up. Do you think they all flew from out of town to attend?
Yes, it looks a bit like flying saucers ... when viewed from the air above. How often will people be viewing it from this vantage point? Never. Yet that's the only architectural rendering that the opposition ever shows.
The *visible* size of the building is about the same as the current facility, and smaller than the apartment building right next door, which is built right up to the street with no landscaping, as opposed to the sanctuary, which will be set back from the street and shielded by beautiful trees and gardens.
Julie Mendelsohn
6:07 am on Wednesday, February 22, 2012
I like the idea of different types of architecture in our neighborhoods. Anyone can build a square, but the circle idea is quite pleasing to me. And isn't the 'Bigger Than the White House' notion not taking the below ground design into effect?
KFrances
12:45 pm on Wednesday, February 22, 2012
I don't like how the very kind ushers sent people in support of 'the project' to the first floor and people against 'the project' to the 3rd floor yesterday at the Lesher.
And please no knee jerk discrimination claims. It's a tactic to shut the real conversation down. Attorney Skaggs said they will use RLUIPA. Nice warning and threat, however that does not guarantee Sufi's can do whatever they want in the name of religious freedom.
Residents are trying to have a thoughtful discussion on the objective issues of the project : Size, design and location. Carol Weyland O'Connor spoke yesterday and said they would not compromise on these things. Not very peaceful. I wouldn't treat a neighbor that way.
When you hear 'Sustainable', 'Blight', 'Green' think One Bay Area, ICLEI, Agenda 21 and know you are dealing with Power and Money to take your freedoms. It was mentioned several times that the Sanctuary would be a Showpiece for Green Sustianble Living. 43 Toilets ...Hmmm ... maybe they should be really green and use the huge and available, soon to be vacant, Jewish Community Center facility that is within 1 mile of 'the project'.
My concern at this point, is that the Board is stacked against the Saranap Residents who are against this project by over 90%. Let's just take a vote. There is Conflict of Interest and the Brown Act is being violated.
Mani Sheriar
12:06 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
I'm a supporter, I came in wearing my button and was ushered to the balcony, where there were many other supporters, so it's hard for me to believe the ushers were segregating us.
Chris Nicholson
12:54 pm on Wednesday, February 22, 2012
I wonder how much of the money comes from David M. Overton, the founder of The Cheesecake Factory. I'm not sure if I really care, but it is curious that a small group of artists and poets could come up with such a big pile of money and sophisticated lobbying/legal strategy. Again, none of that is necessarily "bad"--- I'm just curious if anyone knows the backstory here.
Bernard Schwartz
2:24 pm on Wednesday, February 22, 2012
Chris, you say a small group of artists and poets! I can assure you there are many professionals including doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc. in the group, many who have contributed large parts of their income to make this dream a reality.
Chris Nicholson
6:06 pm on Wednesday, February 22, 2012
I would say so! I read that they claim 350 congregants. I have never seen such a number UNDER-stated, so let's assume 300 "active members" (prob high). That works out to $133K/couple on average to build the building. I am happy for people to spend their money on what they want (although I object to the taxpayer subsidies here in the form of tax deductions), but it is an unusually high budget for a church building.... It certainly feels like there a handful of core financial backers who are bankrolling a "Taj Mahal" project. I'll bet the top 10% gave more than 90% of the money.
Once again, I am more curious than critical on this point. I am strangely fascinated by fringe groups.
Mani Sheriar
12:08 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
We are a group of mostly professionals, who also do art and poetry as part of our spiritual life. ;)
We have been contributing and saving for years and years. It has been a very conscious effort, as we always hoped to be able to build a permanent sanctuary one day.
Joseph David Dacus
4:39 pm on Wednesday, February 22, 2012
It is of interest when someone like KFrances, offering no proof or backup of their statements, says "...Board is stacked against the Saranap Residents who are against this project by over 90%." And yet, when the applicant says 83% of respondents to the county are in favor, and it is backed up by 7 volumes of bound letters and cards, AND by the county's own count of pro/con letters/emails/cards, they are accused of being a tiny minority. You can have your own opinion of this church, its members, etc., but you cannot have your own facts. If you have some information, trot it on out! It's like when the Mayor of Walnut Creek referred to the yellow signs sprinkled around (usually two to a lot). He said to his assembled walking tour group, "those are not Bob's signs [referring to Bob Carpenter, Project Manager for the Sufism Reoriented sanctuary project who was along on the walk]. Bob said, "don't count the houses with signs, count the houses that DON'T have a sign." Those opposed are a small minority of the entire Saranap. This was demonstrated when the supporters stood up at the hearing. It was the vast majority of the audience, and on both the ground level and the balcony as well.
KFrances
4:56 pm on Wednesday, February 22, 2012
I have wondered about the funding also....
http://www.faqs.org/tax-exempt/DC/Sufism-Reoriented.html
In Good Faith, Board members who are Sufi's, should recuse themselves from the process and voting. If anything, the opposite has been the case. If you read through County public documents, the same key people surface.
Carol Weyland Conner (Marshida/Spiritual Leader) said they would not compromise on the size, design or location. Did I miss something about peacefully working with others - ?
I would never impose a 66,000 square foot building on a small neighborhood -
I personally would never do that.
Saranap Resident
7:44 pm on Wednesday, February 22, 2012
KFrancis - I'm confused about your statement: Board members who are Sufis should recuse themselves from the process and voting. What board are you referring to?
Saranap Resident
7:48 pm on Wednesday, February 22, 2012
Chris Nicholson said "I would say so! I read that they claim 350 congregants. I have never seen such a number UNDER-stated, so let's assume 300 "active members" (prob high). "
I'm not sure what your assumption is based on, but 350 active members is correct, and I'm not sure why you think it is not?
Mani Sheriar
12:10 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
It might help you to know that all our members are "active." Just like all Franciscan or Buddhist monks or nuns are "active." There is no such thing as inactive members for us. :)
KFrances
12:11 am on Thursday, February 23, 2012
The Brown Act states 'Public commissions, boards, councils and other legislative bodies of local government agencies exist to aid in the conduct of the people's business. The people do not yield their sovereignty to the bodies that serve them.'
If you were to actually walk up to each home in the Saranap area, and take a vote, it would be 90% OPPOSED.
Sufi's are 'ordered'? by their spiritual leader to write letters, show up and wear buttons.
We don't want a 'Showcase' piece for One Bay Area or Agenda 21 with the 66 thousand square feet building that 'sits lightly on the earth.' Give me a break !
Whether it's the Department of Conservation and Development, the local Swim Board, the School Board, the Board of Supervisors, MTC, ABAG, One Bay Area, it goes on... there is a serious threat here of misrepresentation, and you can see it when you reserach public documents.
One example is the hostile takeover of the Saranap Community Association: http://www.saveoursaranap.org/truth-about-support.html
Sufi perspective:
http://sufismreoriented.org/new_sanctuary/faqs/faq_saranap-assosiation.htm
This is such a no-brainer, that if this passes as is, people should be very afraid. One note, the Saranap area had no problem 10 years ago with an 11K sq. ft. Sufi project. Again, it's never been about the religion, it's the SIZE of the building that is flawed.. the 'green' thing to do, is use the vacant JCC building down the road.
Mani Sheriar
12:17 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
This 90% is simply untrue. Maybe on Warren Road only, but certainly not within 300 feet, 1/4 mile, or the Saranap as a whole. Evidence proves almost the opposite is true.
Also it is a fact is that after the "hostile takeover" Sufis were in the minority on the SCA board. They only became the majority when the others quit en masse so they could start their own group with only homeowners who opposed the project.
Joseph David Dacus
7:47 am on Thursday, February 23, 2012
The facts are the neighbors were astonished that the board came out against the Sufism Reoriented sanctuary project BEFORE they had even been submitted the project for their own review. It was actually against the bylaws of the organization. That galvanized neighbors and members, and 4 people ran for office as write-in candidates. This was really a once a year organization except for 11 board members. The non-Sufis were in the majority, although there were some members on the board. In fact it was a member that re-established the organization when it had become completely defunct some years prior! This changed the balance of board members to 5 members of SR with 6 who were not. Exactly HOW was that a hostile takeover? They were not even in the majority! The idea of a takeover is laughable. Then the ego bruised board members whose hand picked candidates had lost in the election all resigned. They QUIT! They were in the majority! And they QUIT. The idea of a hostile takeover was and is a complete fantasy by tin-pot dictators who had run rough shod over the neighborhood for years.
michael frederick
9:35 am on Thursday, February 23, 2012
Mr. Dacus presents himself publicly as an objective professional as he, for instance, blasts NIMBYs over the JCC -- never revealing that NIMBY bashing is his Sufi strategy a mile up the road. He also doesn't disclose he lives over the fence from the murshida and his wife is a published Sufi poet. For Mr. Dacus, sanctuary promotion is Job #1, #2, and #3 -- objectivity, truth, neighborhood, etc. are lower priorities.
In this case, Sufis have inhabited Saranap for over 35 years -- NEVER taking interest in the local homeowners association until recently, when it became necessary to exert undue influence (by a TIGHT KNIT religious group) over a homeowner association dedicated to protecting the neighborhood environment the Sufis sought to excavate.
Similarly, the "83%" and "90%" figures Mr. Dacus recites are a deceptive ruse. They are the product of a religiously fanatical group that rearranges its lives to live in the murshida's shadow. While there certainly are aspects of the Sufi sanctuary for reasonable people to disagree over, NO (0) Sufi member has ever criticized an element of the plan! These fantastic numbers occur because Sufis attend all meetings in the hundreds, just as they undoubtedly harrass County staff and commissioners en masse.
Mr. Dacus' unbelievable stats are just that. Just as with meetings, the homeowners association, etc. -- this is a group dedicated to misrepresenting that its 3-400 members speak for 4-5000.
Read the Times editorial today.
Joseph David Dacus
5:42 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
It is clear Mr. Frederick has a beef with me. I present myself as myself. My wife, a professional fundraising consultant who writes poetry and plays (and is at work on a novel), has published 3 books of poetry and 2 CD's of spoken word poetry. I'm not even sure the word Sufi even appears in any of these books (she wasn't either when I asked her). But thanks for the plug. I guess poetry is sinister and evil now too...what next book burning in the courtyard from this group. You question the statistics I've used (straight from county records...a simple math calculation). If you say the vast majority oppose...please--as we used to say in grade school--"show your work" Mr. Frederick.
michael frederick
2:40 am on Saturday, February 25, 2012
Mr. Dacus,
It seems clear you get paid by the word for your shotgun Sufi advocacy. I'll try to be succinct.
"I present myself as myself." That is incorrect. With the JCC discussion here on Patch you rolled-out all of your architectural credentials to impart to readers expert and OBJECTIVE opinion, as you bashed NIMBYs. While unloading your "professional" garbage, you never admitted that you were a Sufi with a NIMBY bashing agenda a mile up the road, in service to your religion. A religion -- and I'm trying to go slow for you, Mr. Dacus -- that imparts so much bias, your household writes poetry about it! A religion that even governs where you live.
I find your recent attempt at distancing yourself from the wife's work humorous. Anyone who plugs "Dacus" and "Sufi" into their search engine will immediately recognize the first entry that pops-up: "Sufi poet Rachel Dacus". Your beef isn't with me, it's with YAHOO. Apparently, YAHOO has joined the NIMBY conspiracy to mischaracterize your honest and decent Sufi promotional efforts.
The only "group" I belong to is the one that despises those who misrepresent themselves to promote their interests and cause injury to others. In digging into this -- since becoming exposed to your pathetic rhetoric -- I've determined to my satisfaction that your Sufi group seems to share the same set of ethics that you publicly emit. The combined effort of ~350 religious zealots has swamped and poisoned the proceedings.
Joseph David Dacus
7:28 am on Saturday, February 25, 2012
Mr. Frederick: Let us know when you'd like to buy some books and CD's, or you may buy direct from Amazon.com for your convenience. And I'm not misrepresenting myself about NIMBY's, I think they thwart development all over the country, driving up the cost of both construction and government wherever they raise their self righteous banner, and they also lessen the good projects may provide more often than they add due to their mischief...and it is simply that: mischief. They cost everyone in a community.
Roger Bird
7:58 am on Thursday, February 23, 2012
I am positive that when we all see through a glass clearly that Sufism ReOriented will be known as being blameless in this drama. I base my certainty on being friends with Sufism ReOriented, it's members and Ivy Duce and Jim Mackie and Carol Conner, for the past 45 years. I do not know the details of this current drama since I am unfortunately 1200 miles away from Saranap. But I do know the hearts and minds of the members and leaders of Sufism ReOriented. And I know that rather than complain about these people, if the complainers knew them, they would be extremely happy to be living near them.
Chris Nicholson
8:58 am on Thursday, February 23, 2012
I don't think it is a question of "blame." If my best friend wanted to build a 66K sq ft spaceship compound next door to me, I would object (without assigning blame or malice).
KFrances
9:29 am on Thursday, February 23, 2012
Saranap was happy before the Sufi's moved in, and after the Sufi's morved in.
Saranap Reisdents have been happily coexisitng and adjusted to the change of the elementary school, the new faces in the neighborhood, and have been completely tolerant in every way. And the Sufi's know this is true. It's a wonderful neighborhod. And for anything otherwise to be claimed, is just SO unfair.
A decision was made by the (Dictator/Spiritual Leader...I don't know...) and it really started to become apparent with the Saranap Association 'incident' 'takeover' - I think it was hostile, as there was already a motive about this ABSURDLY huge building. There are 3% of Sufi households in Saranap. There is outside money and influence dictating a local issue.
This is NOT what 90- 97% of Saranap residents want, and that's not right and it isn't 'spiritual'.
This is an ABSURDLY huge building.
Common Sense says NO. Excavating 60 thousand square feet of dirt in a neighborhood. Go to the already built JCC down the road.
....and yes, where IS all the money coming from?
Joseph David Dacus
5:51 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
"Dictator" seriously? Really? WOW!
"90-97% oppose" please provide a shred of evidence.
"excavating 60,000 sq ft" actually it is LESS than the size of a NFL football field (160x300 is the size NOT counting end zones, and that is 48,000 sq. ft.). The 20,000 sq ft surface prayer hall room is not "excavated!"
I do TOTALLY agree with you on one thing...the Saranap IS a wonderful neighborhood. We love it and most of us have made our homes here for 3 or more decades. We love it here...more than you can possibly imagine~
Beth Ward
9:35 am on Thursday, February 23, 2012
Here's where the money likely came from:
Let's say the Cheesecake dude gave $5 million; that leaves $15 million for 350 people to come up with over 35 years. Not including any interest they would have earned on the annual gifts, that's $428,571 per year which works out to $1225 per person per year. Not a whole lot and they do have a lot of professionals in their group.
Roger Bird
10:00 am on Thursday, February 23, 2012
Beth, you forgot to include the money they almost certaintly inherited from Terry Duce.
But all of this is irrelevent. It is not a crime to be rich. It is not a crime to inherit money. It is not a crime to want to give money to an organization that one is crazy about. I am crazy about Sufism also, but I am so poor that I won't be giving them any money. And they have never asked me for money. But if you people keep trying to demonize them, I might just bite the bullet and send them some money.
Roger Bird
9:51 am on Thursday, February 23, 2012
Have you ever considered that the Sufis who live around the proposed building will also have their property values affected? Yet they don't feel that the effect will be bad. Are they all stupid? I know for a fact that some of them are: a nuclear physicist, a science teacher, a C programmer, etc. Are these people so stupid that they can't see that the "ABSURDLY" huge building is going to destroy their property values and their pleasant way of life. Or are they all just so brain washed. If they are brain washed, how come I am not brain washed, sitting here in Colorado Springs, and I hung out with them and Carol for decades.
I never gave the Sufis so much as even a penny. They never asked me for even so much as a penny. Carol unexpectedly gave me $350 cash money about 7 years ago without my asking her when I complained that I could not afford automobile insurance. Does that sound like they are a cult and all so evil and brainwashed?
Your attitude may be reasonable in light of the numerous cults that the Western World has had for the past 60 years. But I can assure you that your attitude is way, way, 180 degrees off from the truth. There is no evil activities going on with the Sufis; there is only people growing spiritually.
Roger Bird
7:20 am on Saturday, February 25, 2012
Michael Frederick, Sufis have to be ordered to live around Murshida Carol like bees have to be ordered to swarm around honey. Sufis aren't ordered to live around Murshida Carol (and not all Sufis do live around Murshida Carol), they WANT to live around Murshida Carol.
Joseph David Dacus
7:35 am on Saturday, February 25, 2012
It was an oft repeated statement when the Golden Gate Bridge was originally proposed to be built (this was LONG before environmental impact reports). The Nimbys said property values in Marin County would go down. It was in the late 30's. There were thousands of lawsuits...thousands! Hysterically funny looking back at it.
Michael Taylor
8:52 am on Saturday, February 25, 2012
@Joseph Dacus' "Development is Good" post ----
Are you kidding us? That people can even maintain this position given the strain on resources this country and this planet are under defies belief.
Melanie Davis
9:12 am on Saturday, February 25, 2012
You can be sure if Sufism Reoriented is building, it will be exquisitely beautiful. Appropriately refined. And good.
Roger Bird
10:33 am on Saturday, February 25, 2012
Melanie, I could not agree with you more. Just look at their website for exquisitely beautiful, refined, and good.
Chris Nicholson
9:25 am on Saturday, February 25, 2012
Why do I not find it persuasive to hear fellow cult members trade self-reinforcing comments about the unadulterated goodness of their Svengali and her planned shrine?
Sorry for using loaded language, but I needed it to convey the subtle creepy/kooky subtext that I (perhaps erroneously) perceive....
Michael Taylor
9:50 am on Saturday, February 25, 2012
I agree. It's almost as unsettling as the "nothing to see here, move along, nothing to see here" mantra.
Roger Bird
10:39 am on Saturday, February 25, 2012
Chris Nickolson, I am glad that you notice that you are using loaded language. You erroneously perceive Sufism ReOriented with these incredibly negative stereotypes probably because (1) you are used to seeing real cults do incredibly self-destructive and evil things, and (2) you may be projecting your own inner problems on them.
I can assure you, from 1200 miles away and not having been in the presence of Murshida Carol for at least 16 years, I am not brainwashed, and I think that she is the cat's meow, the bee's knees, and a wonderfully wise, loving, and insightful human being. And I wish that I could visit with her again.